Talk:Zig Novak/@comment-4109358-20130728174436/@comment-3575890-20130729193110
"Who says I'm rejoicing over a characters death." - So your smug assertion that your favorite character is alive while Cam is dead didn't infer you were celebrating that fact? "I LIKED CAM! Just not blinded by his faults." - Oh, the irony in this comment alone. You do realize that this applies precisely to how I feel about Zig, right? "I also don't agree with what he told Cam but as a Cam fan I also think they were both immature. Zig didnt attack or verbally attack Cam throughout that episode, but Cam did him. They are teenage boys it's what they do. ZIg DID NOT KNOW CAM WAS SUICIDLE! If he did he would not have said what he said." - First of all, Campbell had every right to have hard feelings towards Zig considering Zig had been continually trying to come between him and his girlfriend. Though the violent part of it was not necessary, he reacted as most other guys would have. I hate to say it. But Zig had that altercation coming to him. You can not just keep hitting on another boy's girlfriend and expect there to be no consequences. The fact that Zig did not know Cam was suicidal is besides the point. In fact, had he known and thus purposefully pushed Cam over the edge, that would have made him a MONSTER beyond redemption and certainly unworthy of forgiveness. Zig is not that and no one is actually saying he is. Though yes, it was not in his intentions to trigger Campbell's breakdown, the fact remains that he STILL DID. The damage has been done and is irreversible. If I were to accidentally run over my significant other's (god forbid) brother or something, is it really going to make much of a difference to that person that it was an accident? That I didn't mean to? Well of course I didn't mean to, but it doesn't bring his brother back from the dead now, does it? He would never look at me the same again and I would not blame him. You are missing the point which is that a boy is dead and Zig played a role in that. It doesn't matter the how's, if's, why's or what's behind it. Just that he is DEAD. "He can't go back in time and change things. Making mistakes and learning from them and growing from them is what makes for a good character. And thats what I enjoy." - I agree with this, I do, which is precisely why he should not end up with Maya. He can't go back and change things and he needs to live with that. In the process of his seeking redemption and peace of mind, which I do wish for him by the way, he should not be able to get with the girl he tried to steal away from the boy he pushed to commit suicide. My god, just writing that out in the vaguest terms sounds so amoral and corrupt. What kind of message would it send? What kind of moral of the story would there then? I am not saying Zig doesn't deserve forgiveness. I am not saying he is an irredeemable monster. I am not even saying he can't start over. But all things considering, it would be SO unethical for Maya to be that girl he starts over with. "When it comes to Maya, I can't think of what Cam would have wanted. I think of who is best for Maya in her situation. And thats why I root for Zaya." - I hardly think a boy who willfully cheats on his girlfriend with her, continually pursues her against her will without taking "no" for an answer and then inadvertently plays a role in her first love's suicide qualifies as what is best for Maya. I am JUST SAYING. What is actually best for Maya -- that is, if she absolutely must be in a relationship at all -- is someone who she can start completely over with. Someone she can look at without having to be reminded of a painful experience. Someone she can kiss without feeling guilty because she knows it would hurt Cam if he could only see her with the very boy he had been in his final moments alive so afraid of losing her to that he killed himself over it. Someone who doesn't serve as a constant reminder of her first love's death. Someone she can trust to never hurt her. Zig is not and can never be that. "If you want to generalize people why not say all the white male characters and just not Zig! Cause you do come off as attacking Zig fans."- First of all, I was not generalizing anyone. Did I say ALL Zig fans behave and think the same? No. Second of all, I actually DID point out that Zig is only one out of many of the attractive white male characters that receives special treatment by this fandom. "You know NOTHING on why we like him. Cause Ricardo's looks have nothing to do with why I adore Zig." - Go back and read my post. I never once accused YOU specifically of liking him on the basis of his looks. I already explained the obviousness of Zig being an attractive white boy tying into the reason why he is shown more acceptingness, understanding and forgiveness than others. When the attractive white male characters continually have excuses made for them while other characters (again, I reiterate, usually female) are mercilessly vilified, what more is needed to tip you off of that there is a legitimate problem here? "Theres a reason Zig fans like myself rarely even come to this page cause you are attacked for defending him by the SAME people posting the same things over and over. And because they are anti Zig and pro Cam they gang up on you." - No. you do not get to initiate an argument with us and then cry victim when we give you what you asked for. If you did not wish to engage in combat, you could have scrolled right past Sarah's post and went about your merry way. You did not have to reply to it. You chose to challenge her points. That is typically when a rebuttal occurs. You started this when you -- yes, you -- generalized Campbell fans, proceeded to point fingers and get fresh with us. I am not attacking Zig at all. Maybe you haven't gotten the memo yet, but I among many others here, have FORGIVEN Zig. I do not hate Zig. Oh my god, please at least do me a solid and actually read my posts rather than just skim them so that then maybe you won't need to jump to presumptuous conclusions and we won't need to keep going around in circles like this. "Coming to a characters page and bashing him is fun to you? Well congrats you chased his fans away." - Oy. Vey. I have not once bashed Zig. I don't know how many more times I can clarify that to you.